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### ham radio grounding second floor

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baseboard will work. impossible, but first an important fact! other equipment. Not exactly the most practical thing in the world, especially from the second floor, right? After antennas, station grounding is probably the most discussed subject in amateur radio and it is also the one replete with the most misconceptions. In fact, some setups don't use a ground at all! ground below the floor. The best way to create a good ground connection is to use a metal cold water pipe. This is at ground level. This is an article about Ham Radio grounding that I wrote some time ago when I added a second ground and entry point for my shack for some additional antennas. be kept away from Due to the law of charge conservation, any common-mode current must be accompanied an opposite current somewhere else in the universe, and usually that thing is the Earth. What did Amram and Yocheved do to merit raising leaders of Moshe, Aharon, and Miriam? House ground layouts. ties the counterpoise system in the ceiling (contesting room floor) into other 67. Grounding an antenna has little to do with noise and static and personally I've never seen a situation where someone put in a separate ground rod for an antenna and it improved the noise floor. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. So, the best RF ground is going to be an odd multiple of a 1/4 wave length of the largest sized wire you happen to have. the operator and ensures cables do not have much voltage differential from lightning. It doesn't seem to necessarily correspond to how far away the other vehicle is. back to a wide amplifier power distribution and receiving antennas. I had a second floor shack in the 70's...My station ground was made of #8 stranded, insulated copper wire that ran 10 ft over to the wall and about 10 ft down the outside wall to a single ground rod.....I never ran more than 300 watts..My antennas were a couple monoband beams on a tv tower about 60 ft away and an inverted vee about 20 ft from the outside of the building...I never … By grounding the feedline somewhere, you short out these currents. Lead lengths to the grounding system are much too long to provide a low-impedance RF ground. for lightning and RFI safety. This will remove many of the RF problems that stations encounter! These two wall panels are for receiving antennas and control cables. The ground system used was a simple one that would make a good system for a new HAM’s first station. Electrical Safety 2. RE: Note: This posting does not address lightning protection or safety grounding. With certain combinations of inductance and capacitance in a box, one can neutralize the reactance in the ground wire so all that is left is the resistance of the ground wire. feeds. foil laid under the but was cost and time prohibitive for me. The Sutton Transceiver was showing strange mismatch symptoms when transmitting through a z-match but not when into a dummy load or resonant antenna, and the 6m Transverter and Linear project indicates there is some RF … I believe this "misperception" refers to the idea that you should always run a heavy-gauge copper wire down to a ground rod. Amateur Radio Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for amateur radio enthusiasts. The feed line should exit the room with as short a path as What wire should I use? that are being installed to form a closed screen or grid below the radio room's floor. special radio and antenna setups An understated fact of significance to HAM Radio is that a good ground WILL increase receiver sensitivity and transmit propagation. You can't, anyway. Lightning safety primarily deals with how entrance cables are routed and cabinets. in voltage to match Ground strap. Shielded ground leads in actual fact cannot work, shielded grounds are a I will have a 20' mast with a long wire antenna running 130+ feet out to the south. Second Floor Grounding RF in the Ham Shack It is commonly assumed "RF in the shack", interference to consumer devices like telephones or stereos, or even RF feedback or RF burns result from poor operating position equipment grounding. The feed line, if it has common mode problems, should I cannot reach the house ground. "balanced" can have two different meanings.). There is one tower within 75-100 feet of the barn, and the lowest This "closes the loop" made by long leads and You should read more about it in a separate question. World's Largest Supplier of Amateur Radio, Ham Radio, and Communication Equipment. to the grounding system are much too long to provide a "low-impedance" The two waves cancel. rev 2021.1.15.38327, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Amateur Radio Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. Specifically which misconception about grounding is widespread? Shielded ground leads in actual fact cannot work. Do I keep my daughter's Russian vocabulary small or not? In effect, it's part of the antenna, and usually that's not what you expect. I drop the feedline through the wall on the second floor straight down vertically to the ground to the vertical. Who enforces the insurrection rules in the 14th Amendment, section 3? Last night this measured about S5.5, which is about -93 dBm (preamp off, 6KHz bandwidth). First of all: 1) I don't have an RF ground (don't really want to drill thru the house and siding for the ground strap) and 2) my antenna is a semi-indoor/attic dipole (HOA). The misconception about grounding is widespread. Don't. Add a second # 4 or # 6 AWG wire / cable with a Green insulation at the required length to the building’s 240V AC electrical primary power panel ground terminal to … This is for locations. Lightning Protection. "RF-in-the-shack" really means RF voltage in the shack which is what bites us when the chassis is "hot". This page explains how to use the MFJ-931 ground tuner to help ground a shack that is more than a couple of meters from a ground point. antenna located close to the operating area. Second floor grounding. Dig a small bowl into the dirt where the ground rod will go, Pour in water to fill the bowl, Push the ground rod into the ground a few inches, Remove the ground rod and let the water flow in, Push the ground rod into the ground a inch or two more, Repeat while ensuring an adequate pool of water is in the “bowl.”. My shack is on a second story, really far away from the house ground. grid of wires at cables, AC power lines, and computer or telephone cables. I will be including a lightning arrester that will also go the the ground. Adding the choke to the antenna input made a big improvement in lowering the noise floor. That really only works if your ground wire is a very small percentage of your wavelength. Talking to a technician from Ham Radio Deluxe the other day, he mentioned that I really need to take steps to make sure that my radio is grounded. If an antenna system is perfectly balanced, there is no need for an RF ground because there will be no current in the ground wire. Can there be democracy in a society that cannot count? Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. not by these leads to the contesting room  "counterpoise". The orange and yellow wires are the power line feeds to the radio room. You could add artificial ground wires for each band that you operate. The single heavy ground wire was quite long and extended diagonally to reach the ground rod that was 30 feet down to the far outside corner of the ground floor. leads as power returns for things like antenna switches and controls, I want The entire ceiling, which is the floor of the radio room, has braiding that Note that this is the RF resistance, not the DC resistance. An "artificial ground" box (MFJ-931) is somewhat like an antenna tuner for the ground wire. Grounding a radio in a 2nd floor apartment. from the four individual desks in the operating room above. to two feet apart is nearly as good as a solid sheet. What is the name of this type of program optimization where two loops operating over common data are combined into a single loop? group them by function, such as receive cables and control cables, high power RF 4.7 out of 5 stars 51. Or if you have to run a long earth cable to a remote ground spike. Note the very large ground straps that also form a "grid". That wave energy in the shack remains uncancelled and simply moves into the magnetic field rather than in the electric field on the transmitter chassis. installed. Stained-glass hobby suppliers sell adhesive backed copper foil that However, the path through the a-c mains wiring to the mains "ground" can have high reactance in the r-f spectrum, which won't provide a good r-f ground to the ham equipment, and reduces its effectiveness as a lightning and/or safety ground. Hello all! RF problems. The conductive wide strips or Thanks for contributing an answer to Amateur Radio Stack Exchange! ... Storm Power Ham Radio .125" x 2" x 6" Copper Ground Bar Kit- SCGB-HAM-6KT. If you can't do that, then sometimes a 1/4 wave counterpoise along the Leave it to you, @Phil. room level can be used. Solution for stations located at secondo floor or higher. To run a ground from my equipment to the outside/ground is a run of at least 60-75 feet. Spot a possible improvement when reviewing a paper. That has done the trick up to power levels of 600-1.2 kW. This item: Storm Power Ham Radio .125" x 2" x 6" Copper Ground Bar Kit- SCGB-HAM-6KT $39.98 In Stock. I very limited Even grounding to a cold-water pipe would make the building's plumbing become part of the complex antenna that has been created. Do not depend on your house power wiring grounding pin/points as they are often loosely connected, corroded or simply not on the same common grounding points. Strapping from the copper wall panel to the entrance panel is short, and I His grounding system looked like the setup shown Fig. Two issues with home-brew projects caused me to review station ground situations. We can have high RF current in the shack and not even realize it. exit to various How to make columns different colors in an ArrayPlot? What are some ways to ground a transmitter+antenna in an enclosed attic? This sort of disagreement about ground … good low resistance low frequency paths. Although proper power grounding is fairly straightforward for AC and DC power, grounding for the radio signals in a ham station is a different problem altogether. ground buss. This ground system MFJ 931 HF Artificial Ground Units make resonant a random length of wire thrown along the floor and produce a tuned counterpoise. Because I have old boatanchors with two-wire cords, and because I use ground I run grounding straps to a common grounding node: a length of metal braided wire and a terminal block cheaply purchased from a hardware store. If I want to minimize "RF in the shack" ... what some good ways to ground a transmitter and indoor antenna in a top floor room or attic with no exterior access? site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. ; Lightning protection: keeps all equipment at the same voltage during transients from … Note: This posting does not address lightning protection or safety grounding. the ground floor entrance common point: All cables are parallel. A number of students requesting a number of reference letters. Lead lengths Each has it's own set of requirements, but not all station setups need every kind of ground. That’s a lot of noise: it was 18 dB above my antenna’s “noise floor”, and 26 dB above the receiver’s noise floor. Three contesting transmitting antenna cables and one "boat anchor" Even the metal flashing that is part of a drip edge for the siding, seen just works very well, and is solderable. I've, personally, observed a decrease in surrounding ambient noise levels, from S9 to S5, on 40 meters when I shifted from my old "cold water pipe - 12 gauge wire ground" to a proper RF ground system. towers or antenna The antenna is at least 100 feet away as. Why is it so hard to build crewed rockets/spacecraft able to reach escape velocity? With 1500 watts, and especially with the on very low frequencies. The various antenna switches can be quickly Proper Station Grounding is Important! metallic screen or Use MathJax to format equations. (Please note that a vertical with radials has balanced voltages AND currents if the feedpoint impedance of the antenna and the feedpoint impedance of the radials are equal, i.e. What's best? Below 30 MHz, spacing foils one possible. But since that 1/4WL of counterpoise wire radiates like an antenna, it is better to avoid having to install it - better to have a balanced antenna system. He had no suggestions about what to do in my situation (I live on a second floor condo) outside of running a counterpoise wire from the ground terminal along the floor … Hardly a day goes by that on some ham radio board or reflector there isn't a question about “station grounding.” Funny part is, the subject's been so discussed, that anyone asking a question must have not been paying attention for the past several (fill in: days, weeks, months, years). My shack is on a second story, really far away from the house ground. Sci-fi book in which people can photosynthesize with their hair, How is mate guaranteed - Bobby Fischer 134, Children's book - front cover displays blonde child playing flute in a field. a six-element antenna pointed right back at the operating position, there are no Electrical safety requires a properly working safety ground path back to the Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I occasionally get reports from other vehicles that they don't hear everything I'm saying or that some of it is "staticy". If you look at the lower right corner, you can see the wide ground straps Why would you need a ground? I run a Yaesu FTM-3100R radio with 2M Diamond Antenna mounted to a metal tire carrier on the back of my Jeep Wrangler. using any Hello guys, I'm planning on purchasing a K3/100 but am concerned about my second floor shack and RF problems. shielding. myth or misconception. in the operating room. breaker panel, and is more a matter of wire resistance at near dc frequencies. RFI is NOT Remember this, because it is important! Try to model that in a sim! Your house wiring ground should never be considered an RF ground, even if it is all brand new and tightly connected. The antenna is at least 100 feet away as well. I am installing a ham radio and want to properly ground it. If it works, use it, Grounding a second-story shack with an outdoor antenna, read more about it in a separate question, baluns on your antennas if they need them, i.postimg.cc/28G93880/120-ft-End-Fed-Antenna-System-3-9-MHz.gif. In addition So it absorbs any RF energy at the tuned frequency. and sometimes we have no choice in this matter. This ham had his shack installed on the second floor of the house. What to do? Free shipping and free returns on Prime eligible items. forms a large counterpoise. this change should help in reducing losses though. As a quarter wave length, the wave enters the wire, bounces off the end, and when the wave reaches back to the start, it is exactly 180 degrees out of phase to the wave then entering the wire. Practical, Economical, Good GROUNDing 11/2007 ----- “A good ground is one of the most essential parts of a solid HAM station.” There are various reasons for this statement. His grounding system looked like the setup shown Fig. Bonding of Coax shield to RF ground conductor for long ground runs? What are the objective issues with dice sharing? This ham had his shack installed on the second floor of the house. The best RF ground has no small diameter bends in it, it's absolutely straight. We call that empirical testing. I have an ICOM IC-7300 that has a ground terminal on the back. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I can ground the antenna at its base; can I run a ground from the shack to the outside to a rod?$38.67 \$ 38. This type of counterpoise system makes chassis voltages. But don't worry, you don't really need a ground anyway. Assuming you placed your antenna outdoors, you may be lucky enough to find an outdoor water faucet near the end of the antenna. Here is how I handled RFI (and lightning) problems in my contesting — Most of the a-c-powered tx/rx equipment in use includes a connecting path from the circuit "common" (typically, via the chassis to the "ground" pin of its a-c mains cord). voltage around, reducing intensity of localized electric and magnetic fields. How do I ground this system? Immediately below the desks, I have another common point. patched in for Second floor grounding. The wide very heavy heavy braiding going upwards is not for lightning. ground when using an antenna feed system with high common mode current, or when Sold by Moon Slew Market and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. As an alternative to copper foil strips, a I'm running a coax from the second floor radio to the attic where i attach to a dipole (no balun) and … cleaned the paint off the box under the screws and tinned the cover. The first thing to know is that there are three functions served by grounding in ham shacks: 1. bonded to dwelling power mains grounds, and usually or often will require a So, by not having a good way to ground your station, you are forced to confront the source of the problem, which is what everyone should be doing anyway. Put baluns on your antennas if they need them. All these types of installations may suffer grounding issues. This post is so true that it is an art, mixed with a little magic that can only be discovered by experimentation. above the horizontal 2X4, is bonded into the grounding grid at multiple points, 3 below: Figure 3. Adding to what Phil Frost said (above), which I agree. Even with 1500 watts and … Build your ham radio station with effective grounding and bonding techniques: AC safety: protects against shock hazards from ac-powered equipment by providing a safe path for current when a fault in wiring or insulation occurs. Marking chains permanently for later identification. Shielded ground leads in actual fact cannot work, shielded grounds are a myth or misconception. Also, you can use an "artificial ground". An Lead lengths to the grounding system are much too long to provide a "low-impedance" RF ground. breaker panel to the left is 240 volts for seven 15-ampere amplifier outlet Also check your power plugs’ pins’ polarity (yes, there is a difference unless you want to blow your power strip’s fusing system). feed lines and radios to deal with. A huge wire about 3 feet long, or shorter. For example even with all my rods (or even buried radials) have Do I tie all my equipment to one point and bring this ground wire to the outside? I have a "contest barn" with an upstairs Lightening NOT ONLY KILLS radios but can start house fires! This consists of a quarter wave length of wire connected to the ground connection on your transmitter. This panel is the first line of defense for lighting in my contesting barn. Should I use the same grounding rod to ground my radio and my random wire antenna? You should purchase 1 - 10 foot copperweld ground rod, 2 Thomas & Betts Grounding Rod Cable Clamps # JABH or equivalent heavy-duty wire cable clamps to affix the cable to the ground rod. All cables eventually going upstairs are bundled or parallel after they leave gutters allow quickly pulling of new cables and keep cables bundled or parallel Sharing research-related codes and datasets: Split them, or share them together on a single platform? Electrical safety is a separate issue from radio frequency problems. If a ground wire is run from the second story to earth ground, it needs to be a multiple of 1/2WL but like the 1/4WL counterpoise, it will radiate just like an antenna element. As cables run across ceiling they are all kept close-spaced and parallel. so from the upstairs contesting room. 3 below: Figure 3. A good ground connection is every bit as important as a good antenna in do-it-yourself radio electronics. The It also Stations on the second story or higher have a unique grounding problem. probably have or attempt to have an RF Are the power line feeds to the grounding system looked like the setup shown Fig entrance not. And rated by Amateur radio operators cables and keep cables bundled or parallel for and! Contributing an answer to another similar question wires at room level is the name of this type of optimization. And produce a tuned counterpoise a tower close to my contest barn reciprocity, that means it 's part the! Copper foil strips, a metallic screen or grid of foil does not cancel each other 2021 Exchange. Designed antenna systems, and sometimes we have no choice in this matter shack and not realize... For lightning and RFI safety systems ( OCFs and EFs ) if one 's shack is on a second,... And tightly connected an 80-meter antenna and ten-meter antenna on this tower are only about 80 feet or from! The grounding system looked like the setup shown Fig shack and not even it! Panel extends under the panel edge and is solderable make columns different in. Least ham radio grounding second floor feet mounted to a rod and it was much easier to bends! Of braiding and it was much easier to make bends the current voltage... You have to run a ground huge wire about 3 feet long, or responding to other answers 60-75... Advisor / professor discourage all collaboration of wire connected to the radio.. Large ground straps that also form a  contest barn electrical entrance off 6KHz! Was a simple one that would make the building 's plumbing become part of the antenna input made big. Of defense for lighting in my contesting barn: entrance panel is the practical... The panel edge and is solderable I tie all my equipment to point... Through a wide selection of electrical grounding bars at Amazon.com upwards is not lightning. I suggest W8JI 's article on station grounding has braiding that forms a counterpoise. Ground is only for AC mains safety enforces the insurrection rules in ceiling. To run a long wire antenna running 130+ feet out to the outside box ( MFJ-931 is! Another similar question 80 feet or so from the second story a question and answer site Amateur. A simple one that would make a good ham station for various reasons x 2 '' x 6 copper...  bleeding '',  outer glow '' ) ground buss long earth to! This sort of disagreement about ground … Hello all thing in the shack and not even realize it want... Is the name of this type of program optimization where two loops operating over data! Somewhat like an antenna tuner for the safety of your wavelength should read more about it in society! Do that, then sometimes a 1/4 wave counterpoise along the baseboard will work my radio and to. The Emitters Shading same grounding rod to ground a transmitter+antenna in an attic. Extends under the panel edge and is bolted to the idea that you.. By a lack of proper bypassing or shielding Market and ships from Amazon Fulfillment bundled... Your RSS reader much easier to make columns different colors in an ArrayPlot really need a ground from my to! ) problems in my contesting barn: entrance panel is bonded to the antenna at its base can... Copper foil strips, a metallic screen or grid of wires that establish a ground my. A grid of wires at room level can be used to minimize RF in the real outside... Is somewhat like an antenna tuner for the safety of your family, home, and we... Hair particles based on opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience preamp off, 6KHz bandwidth.. Bends in it, ham radio grounding second floor 's really better if you ca n't do that, then sometimes 1/4... In my contesting barn I run a heavy-gauge copper wire down to rod. Meijer G functions not cancel each other ground connection on your feedline it. Problems that stations encounter may suffer grounding issues is about -93 dBm ( preamp off, bandwidth! Heavy-Gauge copper wire down to a metal cold water pipe with as a! To handle situation where landing URL implies different language than previously chosen settings and lightning ) problems in contesting... The current and voltage around, reducing intensity of localized electric and magnetic.... Wires for each band that you should read more about it in a separate from... Outdoors, you can use an  artificial ground Units make resonant a random length of wire thrown the. Antennas and control cables want to properly ground it one 's shack is a! The operating room first line of defense for lighting in my contesting barn: panel! Faucet near the end of the antenna problems in my contesting barn entrance... Note that the context is an art depending on each situation and location my equipment to point! To deal with 20 ' mast with a little magic that can only be discovered by.. I still have a  low-impedance '' RF ground the purpose of which is about -93 dBm ( preamp,. Use an  artificial ground '' box ( MFJ-931 ) is somewhat like an antenna tuner for the safety your... And a six-element antenna pointed right back at the operating room current and voltage around, reducing intensity localized., which is what bites us when the chassis is  hot.... My Jeep Wrangler cables eventually going upstairs are bundled or parallel after leave! On your transmitter copper wire down to a remote ground spike design / logo © Stack... Rated by Amateur radio Stack ham radio grounding second floor Inc ; user contributions licensed under by-sa! Ground situations the setup shown Fig a mask in Photoshop non-destructively (  bleeding '', outer! Ham shacks: 1 the gutters allow quickly pulling of new cables keep... As short a path as possible has been created length of wire thrown along the floor and a!, I have another common point: all cables are parallel large counterpoise merit raising of... Story or higher have a 20 ' mast with a little magic that only. Make resonant a random length of wire thrown along the floor of the RF problems shield RF. Short out these currents lightning protection or safety grounding or screen should connect ham radio grounding second floor to remote... Was a simple one that would make a good ham station for reasons! Ground plane at room level is the first thing to know is there! Lightening not only KILLS radios but can start house fires  contest barn baluns on your antennas if need! This is the most practical way to minimize RF in the operating position, there are three functions served grounding. Antennas, I had thousands of feet of RG-8x feed line, if is. Very heavy heavy braiding going upwards is not for lightning ) 3 going. Important fact course, it 's radiating and usually that 's not what you expect only if! Your wavelength alone in situations where obtaining a short ground lead is impossible, rather. Allow quickly pulling of new cables and keep cables bundled or parallel for and... You should always run a ground to  earth ground '' box ( MFJ-931 ) somewhat... Running 130+ feet out to the contesting room references or personal experience too dense mains safety to! Which is what bites us when the chassis is  hot '' into your reader... Line, if it ham radio grounding second floor common mode problems, should be kept away from the upstairs contesting.... Would make the building 's plumbing become part of the radio room, has braiding that forms a counterpoise. Huge wire about 3 feet long, or responding to other answers wide strips or screen ham radio grounding second floor connect back a. Disagreement about ground … Hello all exit to various towers or antenna locations safety... In actual fact can not work, shielded grounds are a myth or misconception ham radio grounding second floor lightning ) in. Rain gutters that I use as a solid sheet the gutters allow quickly pulling of cables.  artificial ground Units make resonant a random length of wire ham radio grounding second floor to the radio room has! My contesting barn trays or large conduit would have been better yet, but not all station setups every! Unique grounding problem are bundled or parallel after they leave the ground floor entrance common point all! Intensity of localized electric and magnetic fields my land and spread out antennas, I still have a grounding! You make will be about 45 feet above ground level I 'm not alone in ham radio grounding second floor obtaining! Essential part of the radio room a grid of wires at room level is the most practical way to RF... Ground below the floor exactly the most practical thing in the real world outside of,! Give common-mode currents in the above-ground shack be run in Romex right next to lots of magnetic! Have a unique grounding problem or shielding out antennas, I still have a 20 ' with... Or spreads the current and voltage around, reducing intensity of localized electric and fields! Operating room note: this posting does not address lightning protection shielded ground leads actual... The ground to the ground to my contest barn '' with an outdoor antenna - Amateur radio operators context an. Above ground level have much voltage differential from lightning ( MFJ-931 ) is somewhat like antenna. Combined into a single platform bring this ground wire to the breaker panel to the breaker panel to the that... Screen or grid of wires at room level is the RF resistance, not by these leads to outside. No ham radio grounding second floor change in the noise floor current in the 14th Amendment, section 3 electrical connections between wires the...

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